Did Yeshua teach Torah or present something new?

The Hebrew Roots movement

These are my notes from my initial investigation of what the Hebrew Roots movement/awakening is about. There is no central denominational statement of faith. There is no denomination per se. It's a loose affiliation of like minded believers who believe in the "Whole Word" of God. They don't always agree amongst themselves. But they do hold common beliefs it appears and to which I want to share here.

My interest in learning about Hebrew Roots folks was because I was hearing from so many ministries how bad they were and how those said ministries did not support the HR doctrine. Though having people say all manner of evil against you isn't a sign you are living a holy life, none the less my interest was peaked as to exactly what did they believe

Mat 5.11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

So I wanted to know if Jesus (Yeshua) taught the Torah and what was Jesus's teaching about the Torah. I knew that there would be discussion concerning Paul's interpretation and teaching from the main stream Christian religion. I've been a believer since I was 18 and I'm now 67 (2021).

I was taught we are not under the law, that Jesus is our Sabbath, that the law is abolished. We don't set aside the Sabbath as a Holy day and we gather to worship on Sunday because Jesus resurrected on Sunday. But we really don't know when he resurrected, all we know is that the tomb was discovered empty on Sunday, But whatever, the Christian religion determined on its own authority to change the way it lives in regard to the Torah.

We can easily see that God commanded that the Sabbath is to be Holy for ever. It started after the 6 days of Creation and was included explicitly in the 10 Commandments. There is no evidence that God changed this. Just because Jesus resurrected on Sunday and appeared to the disciples on Sunday (at times) doesn't mean you get to change the commandments. Jesus certainly didn't institute a new commandment.

It's totally apparent that the commandment to worship on Sunday is a man made tradition. We are living in the times that are so much like when Jesus was on earth. The Pharisees had all kinds of man made traditions that they elevated higher than the Torah. It was happening then and it's happening now and I believe the HR movement is wanting to bring us back to a relationship w/ God that includes living out the commandments that God gave Moses.

I have found everywhere w/ the HR movement that they all agree that living the commandments is not for Salvation. But rather, because we are saved by faith, we live out the commands that He gave us.

eMoses was faithful in the LORDs house

Note that Simons uses the word "YAH" for "LORD" and "set apart" for "holy". I don't have a problem with that. I was interested, as I said, in a different matter.

The following notes are from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP9RiRRESGQ

I have not watched everything G. Steven Simons has put out. I do not know all of his positions.

The LORD says that Moses was faithful to His house

Num 12.6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.

Num 12.7 My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.

Num 12.8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?

Yeshau was also faithful in his fathers house.

Moses was faithful in Gods house as was Yeshua. Same house. There is only one House. God’s house. Moses was a servant of the house. Yeshua did not tear down the house. He did not abolish Moses, the law or the prophets. He came to exalt them to their spiritual. Yeshua comes as a son in the house.

Note that if a prophet does not keep the Torah as Moses presented it, they are to be put to death

Deu 13.1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,

Deu 13:2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;

Deu 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

Deu 13:4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep (guard) his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

Deu 13:5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

Moses was faithful in his house and was Yeshua

In fact, since Yeshua built the house, he is counted worthy of more glory

Heb 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Heb 3:2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.

Heb 3:3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.

Heb 3:4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.

Heb 3:5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;

Heb 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

How did Yeshua interact w/ the devil when he had fasted in the desert for 40 days?

What did he say? Where did he find these words to say? Where is it written? The Torah!

Luk 4:3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.

Luk 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Deu 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

Luk 4:7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.

Luk 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Deu 6:13 Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name.

Luk 4:11 And in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Luk 4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Deu 6:16 Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.

Moses and the prophets and the psalms wrote about Yeshua.

Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Note: they understand the scriptures - the OT, the NT wasn’t created.

Luk 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Yeshua says that Moses wrote about him:

Joh 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

Moses writes about how a prophet would live his live and lead people and why and if he should be obeyed

Deu 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

Deu 18:19And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

And Yeshua refers to the above:

Joh 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

How does Yeshua teach when he's not educated?

He’s not trained. He’s not studied under a rabbi. Instead he brought spiritual depth. If he’s not teaching the Torah, they would have stoned him. He quotes Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms

Joh 7:14 Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught.

Joh 7:15 And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?

Joh 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Joh 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. They will transgress the law to kill him.

Joh 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

If you don’t believe Moses, how will you believe Yeshua?

In order to believe Yeshua, we have to believe Moses. They are both in the same house. Yeshua completes Moses and Moses points to Yeshua. How does it make sense that we shouldn’t follow Torah when Yeshua followed it and taught it clearly.

Joh 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

Joh 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

Joh 5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Deu 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

Yeshua teaches the Torah - he is the ultimate Torah teacher.

Did he teach the Torah? You will recognize what he teaches because he teaches the Torah from his Father.

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Isa 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

What is the relationship between Yeshua and Torah?

He did not come to abolish or destroy it. But to “fulfil” - to bring them to the fullest expresion. Since heaven and earth have not passed, the torah is still active. He expects that we teach the same commandments.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

When the scribes and Pharisees are sitting in the seat of Moses, in other words, are teaching Gods commands, Yeshua teaches that we should do whatsoever they bid.

Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

Note the following doesn't say to teach different things to different nations

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Is the above any different from what Moses said in Deu?

Deu 4:2 Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Deu 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Did Yeshua teach that all foods are clean?

Do we have evidence that Yeshua taught something different then what was already in the Torah?

See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2v-8JOSeo0

Again, I do not know all the positions of the presenter, but the response to the question was spot on for me.

Did he teach that the kosher laws from Leviticus were no longer in effect? Again, if he teaches something contrary they should kill him.

Here is the quote:

Mar 7:19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

Lets get the whole context.

Mar 7:1 Then came together unto him the Pharisees, and certain of the scribes, which came from Jerusalem.

Mar 7:2 And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.

Mar 7:3 For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.

Mar 7:4 And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.

Mar 7:5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

Mar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

1) The discussion is about eating with unwashen hands. They are eating bread, which is kosher. The kosher food laws were not the topic. If Yeshua was teaching that all foods were clean, he would be in conflict with Deu 13:1 - Deu 13:5 which we looked at above

2) If he was teaching contrary to the law, why, when the council was wanting to put him to death, why didn’t they just say that he taught that the kosher laws were no longer in effect? This is discussed in Matthew & Mark. He would be a false prophet. Remember Duet.

Mat 26:59 Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death;

Mat 26:60 But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses,

Mar 14:55 And the chief priests and all the council sought for witness against Jesus to put him to death; and found none.

Mar 14:56 For many bare false witness against him, but their witness agreed not together.

3) If Yeshua was teaching a new law, he would be contracting himself when he said:

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

And Mark says the same thing:

Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

Mar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Note: Yeshua can’t break his own law

Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Deu 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Note: there are over 30 food commandments and multiple chapters about food. If he was saying that all foods were clean, then all those commandments would be cancelled and he would be contradicting himself.

Did Peter teach that all foods are clean?

If Yeshua had taught even privately to the disciples that all foods were no longer restricted, they why did Peter respond the way he did when he had the vision of all these unclean animals presented to him to eat?

Act 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

And note that later Peter gives the interpretation of the vision, it's not a mystery

Act 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Did Paul teach not to live the Torah?

In Acts, James and Paul meet and there is an issue about Paul forsaking Moses:

Act 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

Act 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

James recommends Paul do something to demonstrate he still "keeps the law" by joining with 4 men who have a vow. James says by doing this vow with them "all may know these charges are nothing"...

Act 21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

Act 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

Act 21:26 Act 21:26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.

Note in Act 21:25 there seems a statement to "observe no such thing" and I assume that points back to "keepest the law" but I am not a Greek scholor and don't really know.

I found this article: http://messianicfellowship.50webs.com/dit.html that addresses it and I am studying it.

We contend that if the Apostles had indeed advocated that believing Gentiles should not keep all the instructions of Scripture, that they were false prophets. Not believing for a moment that such is the case, we contend that the Apostles were providing a method to include Gentiles in the believing community’s practice – a starting place, where they could graciously learn the commandments of Yehovah. This is the approach of a parent to an adopted child. The natural child already has learned the rules of the house. The adopted child is given an opportunity to learn them. Ask any parent that has both adoptive and natural children and they will tell you that in the end, a fair and wise parent will ensure that all their children are held to the same standard.

Num 15:13 All that are born of the country shall do these things after this manner, in offering an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD.
Num 15:14 And if a stranger sojourn with you, or whosoever be among you in your generations, and will offer an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD; as ye do, so he shall do.
Num 15:15 One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD.

At the end of Pauls life, he said he never violated the law. The following is Paul speaking his defence.

Act 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Act 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Act 25:7 And when he was come, the Jews which came down from Jerusalem stood round about, and laid many and grievous complaints against Paul, which they could not prove.

Act 25:8 While he answered for himself, Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all.

What does life look like with Torah living?

https://www.119ministries.com/teachings/video-teachings/detail/welcome-to-the-whole-word/

What instructions from God should I be following that I am not currently?

Don’t necessarily follow the Jewish practices. They say there are 613 commandments while there isn’t exact accounting.

Many of the commandments require a Temple or require being in the Land of Israel. So they aren’t applicable

For example, if all the roads in America disappeared, would the traffic laws still be applicable.

Though there is no temple, the commandments are still in effect though they can’t be performed.

There are commandments for women, for farmers, etc, if you are not a women or farmer, the commandments don’t apply to you.

If you don’t break all the laws in the country you live in, does’t mean you did all them. Just that you didn’t break those laws that were applicable. All the laws of the country are for all the people of the country.

All the laws in the Word are apply but may not be applicable.

The Sabbath

Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Intended for rest. Not about worship, but rest. We should worship every day.

What constitutes work? Pharisees created lists about this. Yeshua said that it wasn’t biblical.

Why? see Wool and Linen https://www.119ministries.com/teachings/video-teachings/detail/wool-and-linen/

Moedim (Appointed Times)

Spring

Passover (Pesach)

Unleavened Bread (Chag HaMatzot)

First Fruits (Reishit Katzir)

Pentecost (Shavot)

Fall

Trumpets (Yom Teruah)

Atonement (Yom Kippur)

Tabernacles (Sukkot)

Sabbath (Shabbat) every single week

Appointed Time Application

Unleavened Bread Rest Days (Day 1 and 7)

Pentecost

Shavout Rest Day

Day of Trumpets

Yom Teruah Shouting & Sounding of Trumpets & Rest Day

Day of Atonement

Yom Kippur Rest Day + Affliction (fast & prayer)

Tabernacles

Sukkot Eating and Dwelling in Tents

Purim & Hanukka Not commanded but optional (compatible w/ bible)

Search This Blog

The Remnants Way